i assume nt many of the players here take notes so my resoning is based on them

as far as they are concerend this is just another random. its an easy fold even in a turbo

you cant just say he has 2 random cards. you have to put him on something. like kj a10 type hands you prob have 70% but its unviable to assume he has hands in that range because it happens so rarely

you cant just say oh because he has k10o this time it makes it best

will have another look back later but against a random with no history its a fold on the spot

i already said most of this before ruud posted he had K10.

Im not saying his hand is totally random, im just saying it looks to me to be much more likely to be JJ 100 AQ AJ or similar than AA KK AK.

wildrick wrote:i already said most of this before ruud posted he had K10.

Im not saying his hand is totally random, im just saying it looks to me to be much more likely to be JJ 100 AQ AJ or similar than AA KK AK.

how can you possibly put him on this range tho? thats wat im saying

Overated wrote:

wildrick wrote:i already said most of this before ruud posted he had K10.

Im not saying his hand is totally random, im just saying it looks to me to be much more likely to be JJ 100 AQ AJ or similar than AA KK AK.

how can you possibly put him on this range tho? thats wat im saying

i did explain my reasoning in the post lol. Just my opinion...

im not saying its a 100% shove, im just saying its not a 100% fold either...

so your reasoning is his bet sizing lol? thats a v bad thought process tbh. fair enuf if you have notes on the guy etc thats fine to come up with an assumpiton like that.

you also cant just say it 'looks like such and such a hand'

but against a random and in this exact situation it is a 100% fold

not having an argument just a debate btw

Overated wrote:so your reasoning is his bet sizing lol? thats a v bad thought process tbh. fair enuf if you have notes on the guy etc thats fine to come up with an assumpiton like that.

you also cant just say it 'looks like such and such a hand'

but against a random and in this exact situation it is a 100% fold

not having an argument just a debate btw

yup bet sizing is the only thing we have to go on here.

and lets face it, its the reason youre folding as well.

i respect your opinion, no worries m8, i dont do arguing (well at least not on here lol)

Just my initial gut feeling is that he doesnt have AA or KK, due to the half stack bet. Its just a bit numptyish, even for a fish

Hi, interesting debate. I agree with overated and would fold (want to play poker not bingo!)

Although I prefer normal speed games to turbos, if I ever get KK or AA first hand of a SnG and someone has already raised 100, i'm definately going to make the suspicious 700 raise (or maybe 699 to confuse Rick!)

If I get a hand like AA or KK first hand of a SnG or MTT I often like to push all in (especially if there has already been a raiser) to look like a loose gambler looking for some action...if you could consider that you may win on average (e.g.) 300 chips from playing the hand normally, but 1500 chips on average if they call the all in (assuming you start with 2000 and lose 1/4 times...I'm sure my aces get cracked more than that preflop haha!) then do you only need a person to call one in five times (1500:300) to make it more profitable than regular raising ?

Nice to start a tournament with a double up aswell..or if your aces get cracked, you can rest happy that it wasn't going to be your tournament;)

Unfortunately, if everyone folds it doesn't do your table image any favours.

hopelesglory wrote:Hi, interesting debate. I agree with overated and would fold (want to play poker not bingo!)


Although I prefer normal speed games to turbos, if I ever get KK or AA first hand of a SnG and someone has already raised 100, i'm definately going to make the suspicious 700 raise (or maybe 699 to confuse Rick!)

If I get a hand like AA or KK first hand of a SnG or MTT I often like to push all in (especially if there has already been a raiser) to look like a loose gambler looking for some action...if you could consider that you may win on average (e.g.) 300 chips from playing the hand normally, but 1500 chips on average if they call the all in (assuming you start with 2000 and lose 1/4 times...I'm sure my aces get cracked more than that preflop haha!) then do you only need a person to call one in five times (1500:300) to make it more profitable than regular raising ?

Nice to start a tournament with a double up aswell..or if your aces get cracked, you can rest happy that it wasn't going to be your tournament;)

Unfortunately, if everyone folds it doesn't do your table image any favours.

Thanks, your comments are appreciated, but you've highlighted an important point... you would shove with AA ...

If you get AA or KK first hand of a tournament, and there's a raise in front of you, the majority of players choose from 3 options...

1. Smooth call and hope someone goes crazy
2. Sly reraise to 2-300
3. Bung all in and hope there's a muppet there waiting to stack off.

The last thing most players would consider doing was raising half their stack, facing only a small raise.

Now if option 2 or 3 had happened - ie someone made a sensible reraise, or someone shoved all in, then im definitely folding the JJ.

Its the weirdness of this raise that makes me consider the all in - Im not saying I'd be burning the felt to get me chips in, but if i was folding it would definitely require a little more thought than if someone had shoved!

As it was, my case was kind of proven by the fact that crazy raiser had K10.

All this "how can you put him on this rrange" business - well I dont think he has AA or AA or AK due to the weird reriase, i dont think he has a really bad hand either, so I put him on either QQ or a reasonable hand like AQ AJ A10 KQ KJ JJ 1010 99 88 77 etc. As it was he had slightly worse, so i was wrong anyway! It was just my opinion.

I dont think you should be all in everytime with this JJ, my only point here is that I just really cant see anyone reraising a tiny raise to half their stack with AA or KK 1st hand, just doesnt make sense to me!

i owned rick in dis thread

: ))

if u play poker on sense rick u lose

play by stats and what u hav in front of u

i liked this thread
cause
i was right

so if you knew he had K10, you fold? yeah owned, lmfao. All i said was it was a weird reraise, and i doubted he had AA or KK, and I was certainly correct. You mentioned maths then never proved anything, and basically said you would fold. fair enough, but i dont see where you owned anything...

As for playing by feel as opposed to maths... thats clearly donkaments, I'm the most mathsy person I know, except perhaps my sister.

Almost all you ever have to go on in online poker is bet sizing. i just think here it says a lot. Im not saying it says enough for me to risk all my chips, but it certainly makes me think about it.

Just out of interest, what range do you put him on, making it half his stack?

Oh and btw, I love this thread too... it was the first one ever where you talked about poker

wildrick wrote:[...]

Oh and btw, I love this thread too... it was the first one ever where you talked about poker

Now that was witty as fcuk for 4am in the morning!

wildrick wrote:
As for playing by feel as opposed to maths... thats clearly donkaments, I'm the most mathsy person I know, except perhaps my sister.

Agreed!

wildrick wrote:
Almost all you ever have to go on in online poker is bet sizing. i just think here it says a lot. Im not saying it says enough for me to risk all my chips, but it certainly makes me think about it.

+1! I've read this post with interest and agree that the raise is very strange. I'd never be folding this in an online tournament of this size btw, no matter what the bet size. The amount of times I say "he's got AA" and STILL call is not beyond a joke though!

MADV wrote:

wildrick wrote:[...]

Oh and btw, I love this thread too... it was the first one ever where you talked about poker

Now that was witty as fcuk for 4am in the morning!

tyty, I'm here all night day week the time

When people make these seemingly mega raises I always (perhaps rightly or wrongly) put them on hands that they know are in the top range pre-flop, but then don't always like or know what to do with post flop.

In poker stove i'll give them things like 99 to JJ, AKo AQo, AKs AQs and KQs KQo.

Stove LOVES your QQ, but as always you could be right and still be beaten or be wrong and have to uninstal Poker Stove.

I must admit a few times in SNGs I have shoved or mega-raised very early with AA or KK JUST because people often won't believe you have got the good, have no history or feel for your game, and also might be specifcially in a $30 turbo SNG because they don't have much time and are happy to blart their way through the game anyway.

None of that is useful is it?

Just wanted to join in I guess.

BYE!!!!!!!!