Rick how about a nice little article like 'A begginers guide to poker maths' or something similar? I am defo going to go and get a book on the subject but an 'easy to read' intro would be cool?

vnice idea m8y

Poker maths/pot odds or what ever the like to call them normally come into play when a player makes a decision to make a call based on the likely hood of his hand winning a pot based and the amount he has to commit and the resulting chips he may win from said pot.
The likely hood of AJ beating an under pair hitting an up and down str8 draw or a flush all have a % chance

Where poker normally come into play come in to play is when its applied to pot sizes.
Pot odds and implied odds which very simply can be defined as follows

Pot odds the amount of money needed to call into a pot against the likely hood of the cards to come hitting your hand to win the pot, and the player has no further chips you can take off him

For example the pot size is 4000 you have 1000 to call to win the pot thus you are getting 4-1 risking 1000 chips to win 4000.

Implied odds are when you make a drawing call into a pot where your opponent has chips behind, and you think you can take chips off him if you hit your hand.

For example you hold Q10 on a 8JA board only the K or 9 make your hand so you have 8 outs the pot is 4000 and you need to call 2000 so only 2-1 odds.
for pot odds you cant make that call however the opponent has 10,000 chips behind and if you hit and think you can get those off him your implied odds are 5-1 plus pot 2-1 so more than enough to hit your 8 outer.

Please note this is just a very breif outline and these situations are often changed due to chip count, the board, postition and opponent and the game.

Hi Jon,

Ta for the reply.

the pot odds I have always understood but the the implied odds suddenly seems very clear, have so many bits and pieces and always seemed confusing. Now you put it that it way it all seems very simple.

Now if you could just explain 'expected value' that would be marvellous!



Thanks

Dave

you sound a bit like me in my position mate, my maths generally is quite weak and certainly wasn't my strongest subject back in the school days.

i don't think you need to be steven hawking to become a respected poker player, but the basics definitely need to be there.

nice post jon.

It's also worth mentioning that LOTS of VERY successful players really don't consider themselves maths experts. They know (sense/feel/whatever!) good situations from bad, and don't necessarily compute everything that happens in the pot.
If you're scared of the pot odds, just think about the situations you always/often find yourselves in, and focus on those. For example: If you play suited cards a lot, you no doubt find you end up with 4 flushing cards post flop, so be sure you know what you need to be getting from the pot to continue.
Google 'poker pot odds chart' for the obvious ones, but a fav of mine is www.nl-holdem.net/pot_odds_chart.php

Jon Huckle wrote:Poker maths/pot odds or what ever the like to call them normally come into play when a player makes a decision to make a call based on the likely hood of his hand winning a pot based and the amount he has to commit and the resulting chips he may win from said pot.
The likely hood of AJ beating an under pair hitting an up and down str8 draw or a flush all have a % chance

Where poker normally come into play come in to play is when its applied to pot sizes.
Pot odds and implied odds which very simply can be defined as follows

Pot odds the amount of money needed to call into a pot against the likely hood of the cards to come hitting your hand to win the pot, and the player has no further chips you can take off him

For example the pot size is 4000 you have 1000 to call to win the pot thus you are getting 4-1 risking 1000 chips to win 4000.

Implied odds are when you make a drawing call into a pot where your opponent has chips behind, and you think you can take chips off him if you hit your hand.

For example you hold Q10 on a 8JA board only the K or 9 make your hand so you have 8 outs the pot is 4000 and you need to call 2000 so only 2-1 odds.
for pot odds you cant make that call however the opponent has 10,000 chips behind and if you hit and think you can get those off him your implied odds are 5-1 plus pot 2-1 so more than enough to hit your 8 outer.

Please note this is just a very breif outline and these situations are often changed due to chip count, the board, postition and opponent and the game.

Are players really at an advantage when they have a good mathematical background? Or, can you not connect the two because those with a good mathematical background are those with that "type" of brain that also does well in poker?

I know it's a very theoretical questions, the only reason I ask is because I've explored many styles of poker and read many poker stories/hand analyses and autobiographies and I find thad the majority of high-level winning players have a good mathematical grasp on the game. Others who've done well are those with a lot of money or those who ran like gods in 1 tourney that changed their life forever.

I consider myself quite good at maths, although I bow down to Rick's superior knowledge, and wonder if this is what allows me to play a tournament with no cards where many other players simply report of their all ins with a premium getting very lucky (IMO) to run into a not-so-quite-as-good premium. Like KK vs QQ etc. That's just incredibly lucky as it's likely all the chips are going in. In my opinion, the more skillful player (and it's often the mathematically minded player) is he or she who can compute pot odds in a second (yes, people/me really do do it this quick) and make a decision of whether to call with hands that a "rock" would normally bin.

I'm not saying I'm right, but I'd like to debate the subject.